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@mix

scuttle summit

wellington harbour

Let's meet up some time soon. It would be great to share a meal with you all, to sit around a fire, to learn more about what you do in life (your odd hobbies), and to dream about the future of scuttlebutt together.

We could rent a place or go camping for a week or something.

How about late February 2019, in New Zealand?
It's the perfect time of year, and there are lots of people here who'd love to welcome and host you.

Who's interested?

@mix
Re: %lCFKutTP9

I'd be really keen on a scuttle-summit... it's kind of a conversation in itself.
I've created an invocation

@mix

cc some butts @andrestaltz @cryptix @arj @happy0 @christianbundy @noffle @mikey @matt @piet @aljoscha @dominic @alanna @glyph @elavoie (oh god too many to mention...)

@SoapDog
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@SoapDog

sounds really cool!

@andrestaltz

I've been dreaming about visiting NZ and meeting most of kiwibutts out there, but Jan, Feb and a bit of March is an impossible timing for me, for reasons I can share in private. But let's try to make this happen nonetheless! :)

@elavoie

I think this is a great idea but I am not sure I will be able to participate, that will depend both on costs for flying there and other time commitment. If I can't make it, I could help organize another one 6 months after in Europe, let's say around July-August. I have an organic farmer friend who is getting setup to host events at his place. We could camp, hack on solar bikes, help him a little in the fields, eat awesome organic food, and hack the Scuttlebutt future together.

@jfr
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@mycognosist
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@rabble
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@dan hassan android

If its in NZ I'm in!

@Gordon
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@Gordon

I'd love to - like @andrestaltz , I've been dreaming of such a thing... Consider me a ~ tentative ~ yes, depending on whether I'm still working at the start of next year (I'm on a 2 month contract at the moment) - money wise.

@bundy

I would absolutely love to do this. I'll be moving around then so both $$$ and ⌛⌛⌛ are factors I should probably consider, but I'd really love to visit and spend some time with SSB friends.

@Eb4890

I've been pondering about visiting NZ. Justifying the CO2 is my current blocker for long range travel and as well as my current general life uncertainty.

For some reason I am reminded of a guy I knew from a peak oil forum 15 or so years ago, who was sailing down to NZ from the UK and looking for crew. I would have had a radically different life if I had took him up on it, I would have probably got into scuttlebutt much earlier :smiley: I hadn't thought of that for quite a while.

@Eb4890
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@walter

What about meeting many places around the same time and scheduling in some vid chats between groups?

<random-aside>

For some reason the summit idea gave me a flashback to YRUU meetups when I was a teenager.

Man, I haven't thought much about YRUU for decades, but it was an interesting model. In its most basic form it was self-governed teenagers getting together to hang out and do whatever the fuck they wanted using the resources of the larger community. Met life-long friends and explored self-definition of who I wanted to be. Activism was fairly central, religion (as per the UU's "the only creed is there is no set creed" wackiness), was pretty minimally an aspect of the whole thing.

</random-aside>

@Mikael Brockman's laptop

I would happily attend a February Scuttlebutt meetup almost anywhere in Europe, making it a personal challenge to get there by train, ferry, or bus (coming from Rīga).

I would happily help arrange a venue in Rīga but it's quite a remote place for most Europeans. It would be cool to meet in a central European city—Berlin, Prague, Vienna, Munich, Warsaw, etc...

@bobhaugen

Forked from %SI/1Ddk...

If some group of scuttlers wanted to, they could hold a meetup at our place in the Driftless Area aka Ocooch.

We have accomodated a whole rock band. @skysurfer has visited. Here's the guest photo album.

We can probably accommodate 8 people easily, have tents for more if good weather, can probably find neighbors who would add to the housing options, and there's lots of camping options nearby. We got fiber to the house, can extend to the big guest quarters, and if somebody brings some mesh network gear, could go wider.

@olizilla

I'm interested. Can we organise a circumnavigating airship to float us outliers to the New Zealand?

@Jacob (desktop)
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@Dan Hassan
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@dinosaur.mobile
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@Anders
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@Anders

I would looove to meet all you wonderful people in New Zealand sometime:heart:
It was something I talked to Susan about in Spain. I'm a firm believer in putting faces to butts. So naturally I got really excited about your post.

Then I started looking at how long it takes and how much it costs. From Denmark its somewhere between 27 and 32 hours. I would bring the family and that's not really ideal situation with the kids. And its not like you just stay 1 week. I have a project with a deadline in March, so the client is probably not going to be happy about taking a month off there. Not to mention that the flight alone would be 10-27 ton CO2 (depending on source).

I do however really like the idea of a continent meetup. Maybe Berlin for Europe? I believe there are a few scuttlers there and I have an apartment I can borrow. I can also pick up people along the way. It can host 4 people myself included. Maybe with a webcam we can still have sessions together. I know it will not be the same as seeing everyone face to face, but it still could be quite an intense 1 week of hacking / cocktails.

@Mikael Brockman's laptop
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@cblgh
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@rabble

I think the idea of having scuttlefests in the summer is wonderful. That way some folks can travel, and others can connect in remotely. There seem to be three main parts of the world where scuttlebutt developers are based, North America, Northern Europe, and New Zealand / Australia.

It is possible to buy a commercial ticket to travel carbon neutral on a freighter. It is slow, 16 day's LA to Auckland, 30 days to the east coast. Longer to Europe. Costs about $100 USD per day. Only a bit more than flying. It's just much much slower.

Connecting in the real world would be really good. Even if we can't get everybody, some folks have to video in, and we have to do some regional meetings. For now i think we should find ways to have them before other events that scuttlebutters are likely to be at.

@bobhaugen

The freighter idea is attractive. We don't like to fly anymore. A social-media acquaintance got a job on a boat to get from Europe to the US, but it took awhile to get the job.

@Dominic

At some point some scuttle-org should probably get a sailing ship that can slowly circle the globe and scuttlers can hop-on/hop-off as necessary. joking/not-joking.
round trip from NZ to Europe and back in 2-3 years, stopping all the places scuttlers might be.

hermies-sailboat.gif

@Inês
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@teq
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@rabble

Remind's me of Moxie's experiments. He was part of a collective which bought and restored a triple mast 55 ft schooner which they were trying to fix up as a base for anarchist organizing and sailing. Unfortunately the ship overwhelmed the collective.

There's a podcast with interviews about the adventures, and Moxie made a movie about squatter punk sailing, Hold Fast. And there is a semi-active network the anarchist sailing club, Blue Anarchy Yacht Club.

Some other friends of mine are running a tall ship cargo shipping company, Tres Hombres it's part of a network of carbon neutral sail powered shipping, fairtransport which is currently shipping goods across the atlantic.

@bobhaugen

With of course a local SSB network for ongoing development...

@mix

I think @elavoie was working on a lighter-than air vacuum-blimp. How's that coming along?

@Dominic

Haha, I wouldn't consider a wooden square rigger to be practical! not just maintaining the hull, but also need too many hands to sail it. Obviously I'm thinking of a steel hull keeler, with a modern rig. Or, a junk rig (the modern version of traditional chinese rig) as it's very easily handled. Also, tender would be a big open dinghy with enough oars for every one. (good opportunity to practice team work). No outboard. That just turns all but one into passengers rather than crew.

@rabble

Yeah, there are a few proposals and attempts to build modern sail cargo ships like this:

renduNeoline2018_bureaumauric.png

I'm not sure if any of the various proposals has actually been built.

@jeswin
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@Luandro
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@caraka
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@elavoie

@mix The vacuum airship is on indefinite hold, I don't have enough surplus attention and resources to dedicate to that anymore, the potential benefits are too far down the road and uncertain.

Solar sailplanes in combination with thermal generators to create travel routes, that could be a thing! Maybe in 2040? By then hopefully the sailplane community will have significantly grown and there will be plenty of affordable second-hand gliders for all would-be pilots in the community. Hopefully, I will also have figured out how to build a cheap thermal generator.

But I have to finish bootstrapping my personal financial situation, have figured out housing/transportation/food and have surplus attention to dig into the thermodynamics of air and have some thousands of hours to dedicate to prototypes and measurements. So not yet...

Now if we succeed as a community in the next 5-10 years to generate enough surpluses to sustain dedicated international research efforts on the technologies we need, that could go faster!

@mycognosist

Exciting! Februray in NZ is going to be a tough ask for me but I'll be in the UK from December -> April and would love to take part in a regional Scuttle Puddle! Berlin might be an option. Another thought is to rent a cabin in the Welsh countryside for a week and hack from there.

Definitely planning to make it to NZ soon(ish)! Maybe Feb 2020?

@rabble

So @mix, @Matt McKegg and I were sitting around this afternoon. And we got this idea that the second summit could happen between Bornhack and CCCCamp, in mid-August. We could rent a sailboat or two for a week hacker sail.

After the last CCC camp a group of us rented this boat in the Netherlands. The plan is to do another boat this year but this time from Denmark or Germany:
IMG_0003-me.jpg

I can track down the rental info and we could perhaps do one and have a #scuttleboat hackathon.

@jfr

I'd be down for this! Can't make it to NZ in February, but a Europe meetup would be great. Also had not realized that CCC camp is happening again next year, that's awesome!

@Dominic

I'm planning to be at CCCCamp next year also!

@dude

Aren't any of you guys kind of afraid of ocean sailing...

@cryptix
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@prpella
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@Anders

@rabble yes please. Have zero clue about boats, but keen on hacking in one, especially if it comes near Denmark :)

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@Lee Begg
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@piet
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@The Scuttleverse Herald
Re: %+zBq1VCwF

(continued from above)

Then they posted about How to detect centralization creep which is something our community should be on the lookout for. The decentralization of SSB and the clients is what helps keep it awesome. Then again, some centralization can make digital life a lot easier.

Community

@rabble shares a post about "what it means to be open" and working in the open. They go on to pull out quotes that are relevant to us and add their thoughts. This quote is one that made me bookmark the article for later reading.

“Openness” in this context is about accessibility and physical and emotional safety, about the ability to participate without fear. The checks and balances are principally about inclusivity, accessibility and community norms; codes of conduct and their enforcement.


@dan hassan shares info about the Gitcoin grants and a proposal for how the Handshake Council might match funding.

They also discuss a proposal for how the council might pay itself for the time the members spend working on it and how they should go about making decisions


@mixmix proposes a "Scuttle Summit"

Let’s meet up some time soon. It would be great to share a meal with you all, to sit around a fire, to learn more about what you do in life (your odd hobbies), and to dream about the future of scuttlebutt together.
...How about late February 2019, in New Zealand? It’s the perfect time of year, and there are lots of people here who’d love to welcome and host you.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These summaries are brought to you by @masukomi. I would love to hear your suggestions about how to make them better, or ideas on things to include.

post 3 of 3

@nanomonkey

CharteringCommandeering a whole flotilla of sailboats from California to New Zealand sounds like such an awesome idea. I'm curious how long that would take to make the journey. We'd probably have to stop in Hawaii along the way. Similar groups needs to launch from other continents.

I'd be down cook and row/pedal.

@mix

I've accidentally invoked more than I bargained for:

  • scuttle-puddles on multiple continents
  • a dream for a scuttle-armada
  • exploration about the ethics and practical solutions to long-distance flying

studio-gibli-ocean-creatures-explore-sparkle-jellyfish.gif

@teq

@noffle - thanks for the nudge. Yes, I'd certainly be keen to try and make it to a scuttle summit (especially given such temptingly-close but-not-quite-feasible crabmeet opportunities recently).

Great idea @mix, and Feb in NZ is actually a reasonably promising option for me - although all the sailing-related ideas sound amazing too!

@Alanna
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@Alanna

Not sure about international flights and stuff, but smaller expenses related to this would be an excellent use of the SSBC Open Collective funds.

@nichoth

+1 that meeting is great. However, for me it has to be in california until traveling internationally is free :(

@jiangplus
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@Fabián Heredia Montiel
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@ansuz

Having just used a bunch of my vacation days, I don't know that I'll have enough left to justify the length of the trip. If a simultaneous meetup happens in Europe, though, I'd be very interested.

@joeyh

Now I'm really regretting I did not respond to Linux Conf Au's call for presenters in time; the conference is in NZ this summer around the same time, and is very good at helping speakers with travel.

Ah well, that ship has sailed..

@cinnamon
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@mycognosist

Aw thanks @noffle, the feeling is mutual :) Many great hangouts lie before us.

@Antoine Cailly
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@Antoine Cailly
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@Avinash

Love this idea and would love to meet folks from the scuttleverse. I'll have to look at the costs and ease of getting a visa (never easy, to be honest) and make a decision based on that.
Even if I don't make it, would love for this to happen and maybe participate remotely.

@Gendor

I watched Hold Fast on Friday night and thoroughly enjoyed it. I wasn't aware of Moxie's anarchist sailing adventures, only of his work on Signal.

@mix

PROPOSED DATES

When: Feb 25-28 2019 (NZT)
Location : Wellington, New Zealand

Notes :

  • please comment on the date. There may be ways to help with some travel costs, but no guarentee there
  • no venue booked, trying to guage feasibility before locking anything in
  • I expect there will be a lot more hanging out opportunities than just 4 days, this is just a focused dedicated 4 days
  • this doesn't preclude an event in Europe, but that can be it's own thread!

CC (people who said they were interested here) @SoapDog @elavoie @dan hassan @happy0 @christianbundy @Eb4890 @olizilla @arj @rabble @dominic @arj @noffle @elavoie @dan hassan @happy0 @christianbundy @Eb4890 @olizilla @arj @rabble @dominic @arj @noffle @teq @Avinash 9) @teq @Avinash

CC nz butts : @mikey @matt @piet

also @aljoscha @cryptix

@dan hassan android

Provisional yes from me for those dates.

@rabble
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@Avinash

Just realized that I have to be at a wedding in India on the 24th Feb so its a soft -1 for the dates from my side (because i'm not sure if i can make it and wouldn't like the date to be changed just because of my preference).
If it can be moved to late-late-feb to early march, I'd love to plan around and make it to the summit!

@NicoPace

just a thought... sounds like a very good use of fund money to get people from the global south to that gathering!
may be @Luandro ? :smiley:
to make it more rich... india south pacific or africa is valid too...

@Simon Fridlund
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@lzlr
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@teq

Thanks, yep a provisional yes from me for those dates too.

@CatsCradle
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@rabble

Those dates work for me. I'm really excited about scuttlebutt getting to where we have developers get together for a meeting. I know we can chip in some funds form #verse help make it happen.

@LanceW_mobile
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@mix
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@bundy
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@Nanz
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@mix

Ok, I'm tentatively powerfully confidently picking up the mantle of Lead Weaver - I will guide this event into being, and do my best to balance the different needs here.

I've talked with my coop family - @piet and @alanna #protozoa - and we've decided that me helping coordinate this will be how we will sponsor this event.

I probably can't do this alone. If you're thinking there's a clear plan, there isn't (yet!), and more hearts and hands will make this more great

@mix

Here's a start:

This gathering will be a collection point information about the event as its form emerges

@Dominic

@mix what about hiring out a doc cabin, as we nearly did that time for protozoa?

@cel
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@Dan Hassan
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@hoodownr
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@mix

yeah that's a possibility on my mind - this was the place we considered : mt holdsworth lodge pics of the forest around it here %Il2k+6R...

@newcivics
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@newcivics

Hello! I'm new here (both on SSB and in NZ). I'm living in Christchurch doing earthquake engineering research but am wondering how/if I can insert myself into the decentralized web community, if only someday as a part-time contributor and/or on the community side of things (fun things like timebanks, local mutual credit currencies etc). Being so (relatively) close to Wellington, it would be lovely to meet some of you in person if there's room for someone like me. My idea would be to "be a sponge" and soak up as much knowledge as I can---but naturally I'm more than happy to contribute as I know how, helping with cooking, cabin rental costs, good banter, etc.

@mix
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@gmarcos87

What a beautiful idea, I'm analyzing if it's possible to travel. I would like to do it with my family (Ana and Libertad). Do you have any ideas about visas, duration of the event, cost of mobility, etc? Thank you

@mix

hey @newcivics - there's regular hang outs every thursday night in wellington if you'd like to join (see gatherings posted here on scuttlebutt!)

The best way to connect with people here is to do what you're doing (posting in new-people, which I see you've done), saying hi, offering to help. I really encourage you to share things that you're doing and excited about. This is another way for people to get to know you and to build connections with people. I lived in christchurch for a while (through the quakes), Lyttelton is very dear to my heart.


@gmarcos87 you'll have to figure out visas yourself. I'd recommend asking people from your region who might have visited. Here's a site that might help : https://www.newzealand.com/us/visas-and-immigration/
The plan is a 4 day event. Not sure about the format or location yet. I've got a 1 year old, how old are any children in your family? Cost of getting around is not high I don't think. Depends where the event is. I'd like to prioritise fairly easy to access. It will be within an hour or two radius of Wellington for sure.

@gmarcos87

@mix Great! Argentina is on the list of "Visa waiver countries", it does not need a special visa to travel. I have a daughter of 2 years old, almost 3. I would really like to meet you. I will try to make the effort!

@dan hassan android

Gmarcos I will be travelling from Australia with my toddler of the same age!

@mix
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@mix
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@Avinash

Couple of questions that i have:

  • Visa for visiting for the summit would probably be a Holiday/Tourist visa, right?
  • Is there some way (if required) to arrange a type of invitiation letter to add some legitimacy to the summit ?
@cryptixInTheCloud
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@rabble

I asked @joshuavial and he said that as long as we didn't have too many people. Another option is asking about the logistics / option of going to Aroha Valley. I believe that the #enspiral summerfest might be there just before we're meeting, so it'd be an easy transition. They've got tons of glamping tents for everybody to stay in.

@mix

@Avinash yeah I'd go for the Tourist one I think (but I would trust the website more than me). Yes you can get an invitation letter. The easiest way would be if you could write up something basic (so I don't have to do all the things!), I'll add some detail, and then can send it out to anyone who needs one.

@rabble we've got at least 20 people that I'm 90% sure are going to attend - way too many for Josh's place.

I can ask @Matthew Monahan et al about Aroha. It will still cost (unless they're wanting to subsidise.

@mix

I've done some initial research of places. My preferred choice is going to cost ~$300 NZD per person for 4 days. That will include lunches and dinners catered, fairly nice accoimidation, and one of the most atmosphericlly chill places I've ever done an overnight gathering.

I'm checking in to see if I can find cheaper cattering.

One of the requirements for the sort of event I want is that it has covered spaces which work in the event of rain. While a lot of people might like to rough it and go super cheap camping, this would mean I wouldn't easily be able to attend with my family.
We could do all our own cooking, but I don't have time or interest in doing all the logistics (planning meals, doing a massive shop, organising a cooking roster). If there's someone else who's passionate about that and wants to pull all that together please get in touch.

@Rich

fyi @mix Doris's catering is about $50/pp/day

@Zach

I like the energy and excitement in this thread, and it's amazing to see a murmur of an idea in the first post now be this din of gatherings and plans--though it can also be difficult to make sense of (at least for me). For example, just to clarify for the event attached to the scuttle-summit gathering. Is this intended to be a retreat for devs, or is it intended to be a gathering of scuttlebutts? These are distinctly different events, but both have been talked about in this thread, and I thought it might help to clarify what is being planned.

@mix

Checked in with Doris, she's book out (enspiral fest + a permaculture course immediately after!). Riverslea is about the same.

@zach if the plan seems unclear it's because it is. The forming of the space is still happening. Personally I don't want dev-only spaces, I think it's antithetical to the future we're building. I for sure want to nerd out, but I think that's quite a wide open thing.

I've taken on board some of our conversation for the other day and am about to invoke something clearer!

@mix
Re: %+gliaWUbZ

stewarding-riverslea.jpg

scuttle-camp

This is a 4 day overnight thing at Riverslea Retreat center

Dates : Feb 25-28

Cost : accomidation is and food are going to cost (~ $300 NZD, still being planned, see threads and discuss there)

Threads : "dev-diary" initial invocation

Gathering : %EkQB8B5...

@mix

See new invocation here : %+gliaWU...

cc @zach

@bundy
Re: %82qwRa0FR

@Richard D. Bartlett

I really love this, it's both heartwarming and refreshing to see such utopian ideals talked about so comfortably and with such lucidity (lucidly?).

There’s an empty space between Self and Crowd

To me, this is the clearest opportunity for improvement. There seems to be a snowball effect that I think is fueled by a sort of crowd exclusivity. For example, most conventional jobs seem to require 40+ hours of work per week, whereas we might see a completely different economy emerge if the norm was to split your labor across different types and sizes of groups.

Specifically, since I'm not sure whether I'll be going to scuttle-summit, I've been thinking about organizing a parallel effort in my region and planning on cross-polinating to other scuttle-summits every few years (or something like that).

Anyway, thanks a lot for writing this, I think I need to keep better tabs on Patchbay's /blogs tag so I can see these when you write them!

@Maggie Hess
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@Zenna
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@sam_uk

Moxies Hold Fast film was one of the things that got me into boats many years ago.

I'm loosely connected to these guys: https://www.newdawntraders.com/ who work with Tres Hombes to import some truly fantastic rum.

@sam_uk

Earlier this month Maersk comitted to going Zero carbon, which is quite a big deal https://www.maersk.com/en/news/2018/12/04/maersk-sets-net-zero-co2-emission-target-by-2050

These girls and guys built a steel boat for this kind of adventure: https://stellaregg.com/sailing-the-farm-the-voyage-of-sea-gypsies-across-the-world/

I think the're still at sea somewhere
sail-boat-buidling-at-farm-768x511.jpg

@Wao
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@ktorn
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@Zenna

I'm looking to get a boat in Europe and I think @Dominic and @onion might be as well :)

We'd likely be quite a few people so I say let's do it! @Jacob and @Alex you down?

@Anders, you could join me then! :star2:

It'd fit perfectly for me as I anyways would be sailing my boat home :ocean: :sparkles:

@maged
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@Powersource

@Zenna Could you clarify, what exactly are you suggesting?

@Zenna

Oh yeah whoops! haha was referring to this post, was reading it separated :sweat_smile:

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@cblgh

yeah that could definitely be interesting, even if i'm not planning on going to ccc camp haha

@Anders

Maybe, I submitted a talk for bornhack, lets see how it goes.

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