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@Mefi
Voted ## The Local Gossip: Episode 8 ### Fungi, Forests & Friends ![gray oyster
@Mefi
Voted Looking forward to hearing the episode [@glyph](@HEqy940T6uB+T+d9Jaa58aNfRz
@kawaiipunk
Voted Looking forward to hearing the episode [@glyph](@HEqy940T6uB+T+d9Jaa58aNfRz
@viktor
Re: %+s2oKiBKT

@glyph Ah fantastic! Perhaps we should open a thread here and we can have a sort of collective semi-public asynch selected reading of it :mag_right::mushroom:

Yeah I've seen some of Mycologos, not attended anything but I've been to the site a couple of times, cought some of the audio and video featuring Peter online, good stuff!

I actually got my copy of the book straight out of Peters hand almost 3 years ago now. I went to Open Source Ecology for a greenhouse build back in 2016 and Peter was there for a few days to do some demonstration of oyster in bucket cultivation. Was a treat to have some short conversation and I got to buy one of the books he had with him for $50 cash, a little bit of a struggle to fit that 2kg tome in my suitcase for the plane :grinning: It's just been patiently sitting on my bookshelf, waiting for me to take the proper time out to get into it.

That trip back in 2016 was an epic 2 week journey for me, landing in NYC the day before Trumps election and staying until the day after. Recording this episode at Douglas Rushkoffs tiny office outside of the city in the afternoon and then living through the traumatizing shock of that election night in NYC. Definitly an experience of intensity of change, turmoil and possibility that we were moving into right then and are now fully flailing about in.

(I hope I can make it to Helsinki one of these days to catch up with those awesome folks!)

@squicc
Voted Looking forward to hearing the episode [@glyph](@HEqy940T6uB+T+d9Jaa58aNfRz
@viktor
Voted [@Viktor Zaunders](@dJYdaVZEbtfhmSEY4PvGTDVJGADRsYaXwaiokvqTs5o=.ed25519) W
@mycognosist
Re: %+s2oKiBKT

@Viktor Zaunders We are in-sync! I received the same book just after Christmas :smile_cat: I contributed to the Kickstarter campaign back in 2013 but was unable to afford the postage to South Africa (it was more than the price of the book itself). Being in the UK, and considering they now have a publisher / distrubutor here, I was finally able to buy a copy. It was totally worth the wait; just an incredible book! I'm only 25 pages into it and I've already learnt a great deal.

I am really enjoying the poetic writing style. I'll have to wait until I've read the whole thing to be certain but at this point I'd recommend this book over any other - nothing comes close to the depth and breadth of this work.

I recommend checking out Mycologos (if you haven't already). It's essentially an online university / set of courses for all things mycological, created and run by Peter McCoy. They also have a Community Supported Mycoculture (CSM) which I think you and others here might find really interesting and inspiring.

P.s. There is another Myco Hacklab Finland meetup scheduled for Friday, 15th of February 2018, 18:00.

@zerocipher
Voted Looking forward to hearing the episode [@glyph](@HEqy940T6uB+T+d9Jaa58aNfRz
@bundy
Voted Looking forward to hearing the episode [@glyph](@HEqy940T6uB+T+d9Jaa58aNfRz
@viktor
Re: %+s2oKiBKT

Looking forward to hearing the episode @glyph!

I have recently started really digging into this big read!
radical mycology

A very different read from mycelium running but at least as inspiring. A more poetic creation than Stamets but diligently referenced and it really engages my learning! Much recommend! :grinning:

@mycognosist
Re: %+s2oKiBKT

Note to cypher-archaeologists & future localhosts: This episode has been renumbered and is now better referenced as Episode 9 (further info).

@bobhaugen
Voted The information about remediation is.. *amazing*. Thank you @mycognosist &
@mycognosist
Re: %+s2oKiBKT

Thanks so much for listening @noffle! You're going to love Mycelium Running. Another book dealing with remediation - which I haven't read but which is recommended highly by folx I respect - is Earth Repair by Leila Darwish.

@kieran I have some thoughts in relation to your follow-up post; gonna let them ferment for a while longer before sharing.

@David
Voted ## The Local Gossip: Episode 8 ### Fungi, Forests & Friends ![gray oyster
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@viktor
Subscribed to channel #the-local-gossip
@viktor
Voted ## The Local Gossip: Episode 8 ### Fungi, Forests & Friends ![gray oyster
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@kawaiipunk
Voted I thoroughly enjoyed our talk and feel like we _barely_ scratched the surfa
@cblgh
Voted ## The Local Gossip: Episode 8 ### Fungi, Forests & Friends ![gray oyster
@peg
Voted ## The Local Gossip: Episode 8 ### Fungi, Forests & Friends ![gray oyster
@zerocipher
Voted ![oysters-in-a-jar-ohhh.jpg](&cqn6FZu3uZCSb7+eiAhYcH3ec8fbctd8JCfG8Oe4FSw=.
@Musickiler's mknbarch2
Voted ![oysters-in-a-jar-ohhh.jpg](&cqn6FZu3uZCSb7+eiAhYcH3ec8fbctd8JCfG8Oe4FSw=.
@Musickiler's mknbarch2
Voted ## The Local Gossip: Episode 8 ### Fungi, Forests & Friends ![gray oyster
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@kieran
Re: %+s2oKiBKT

oysters-in-a-jar-ohhh.jpg

1 day later...

@kieran
Re: %+s2oKiBKT

I thoroughly enjoyed our talk and feel like we barely scratched the surface of such a range of fascinating topics @glyph so I can't wait until we do the next one.

The right moment never arose to open this can of worms, though in my head it was dancing around the edges of my consciousness like some cheeky dryad. I've been discussing with family members about the ethics of cultivation. So with my immediate family if focuses around keeping house-plants. We know that plants are intelligent - they engage in social behaviour (and produce a vast array of chemicals which enable them to do so), they clearly act with intention, they know how to solve problems and they arguably have all the sensory capacities of humans and then some. What is the ethical dimension to keeping and caring for houseplants?

I have a pretty magnificent cheese plant (Monstera deliciosa), which is a cutting from the parent plant (we call her the Mothership) who is over 30 years old and lives in the house I grew up in. This plant has been for so long estranged from its natural habitat. Its likely it was a cutting from another parent plant which had never known its homeland. So for several generations this genetic line of cheese plants has been living in houses, in captivity. But there's not really a fair choice as to what to do with them. I value their lives, they bring me joy, they're well cared for, and its beyond practicality to return them to their native habitat in Mexico. There's not much I can do about it, but I do think about whether its fair to propagate them any more than they already have been. I don't know if I have an answer to that. But there's a mutual dependence, in that they bring me joy, and I feed and drink them.

Thats a relatively straight forward ethical dilemma right. Take it to the instance of small-scale fungus cultivation, and I feel better. Fungi like to be propagated, they spread their spores far and wide, and the more you can encourage them to fruit, the better they will propagate. And I cultivate Oyster mushrooms, which are native, so there is a genuine possibility that the mushrooms I grow will enable dead wood in my area to be colonised by their spores. But when we begin extracting these creatures out of their native environment in order to fulfil a task that will better serve humans and might help prevent / at least slow down the speed of ecosystem collapse. For example growing Quorn. Or training fungi to eat cigarette butts. Its a bit more on the edge of 'whats okay' from an ethical perspective, if we recognise these creatures are sentient. Ultimately we still are dictating their opportunities in many senses when they're in closed systems as opposed to open, so we get to frame the choices they get to make and steer their evolution. I guess a part of me wants to minimise the impact I have on the world, but the reality is we cannot estrange ourselves or abstract ourselves, if I kick on a dandelion by accident, I'm spreading its seed, and actually doing exactly what it wants. Observation and science here are the tools we have at our disposal to be able to decide when its okay to intervene and when its not. I guess I'm making a case for ethical scientific practice.

The third case is where it gets really hairy. I'm building an aquaponics system (slowly mind) and want to keep and cultivate fish and plants as a closed-loop system. And I can see that as a democratised, commons-based community food solution, such systems could be leveraged to really alleviate suffering planet wide - allow river and sea fish-stocks to stabilise and restore balance to ecosystems, to feed humans who are going hungry as drought in certain parts of the world increases. And they can subvert the meat industry, allow people to eat healthy, locally and reliably produced with accountability. This in my mind can even form a cohesive component of building a post-capitalist economy / ecology. And yet part of me feels hesitant. I feel for the fish I want to keep in a 1000L tank. I worry about how I would feel if I grew up in a large white room with 50 other humans and never got the chance to leave. But then I'm anthropomorphising those. How can I know or understand what its like in the body it inhabits along with its ancestral behavioural conditioning?

Argh this stuff is so complex. I guess as long as we try to engage in this stuff with an awareness of suffering, ultimately we have to make decisions in order to balance the scales. It feels like we have too much power. My rational brain builds an answer to such ethical dilemmas / justifies my want to make things better with the 'greater good' argument. But my heart center, my emotional response, is to want to release the fish into the river, to take the cheese plant back to Mexico.

So I guess the question that comes here is, how can we as humans devise symbiotic / generative relationships, that we know to be mutually beneficial (rather than fooling ourselves they are for our own sake) with other species so as to build and maintain healthy and sustainable ecosystems? What does that mean for the future of [phyto/myco]remediation, sustainable food, sustainable building and land design, argiculture, 'rewilding'?

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@mycognosist
Re: %+s2oKiBKT

@noffle I think you might enjoy this one :green_apple:

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@kawaiipunk
Voted ## The Local Gossip: Episode 8 ### Fungi, Forests & Friends ![gray oyster
@Marco
Voted ## The Local Gossip: Episode 8 ### Fungi, Forests & Friends ![gray oyster
@Murkas
Subscribed to channel #the-local-gossip
@hoodownr
Voted ## The Local Gossip: Episode 8 ### Fungi, Forests & Friends ![gray oyster
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@mycognosist

The Local Gossip: Episode 8

Fungi, Forests & Friends

gray oyster mushrooms growing from jar
Several gray oyster mushrooms (Pleurotus ostreatus) growing from myceliated coffee grounds in a glass jar. The glass jar is located on a windowsill and has a clamp-down glass lid which is open in the photo.

Alrighty folx, here ya go. Big thanks to @kieran for joining me on this episode! It was a lot of fun to share stories, knowledge and dreams for the future. Thanks as well to @dan hassan for applying his connector magic to great effect. The intro track is one of 52 (!) created by @cblgh during 2018 (I hope it's OK that I used your track @cblgh - it felt like a good fit).

The conversation ambles through a forest of fungal ideas, touching on topics as diverse as psychedelics and psilocybin mushrooms, peer-based knowledge transfer, the history of cities, remediation and cultivation. We hope you'll enjoy it as much as we did! Feel free to share far and wide.

dat://tlg-hyphal-fusion.hashbase.io
dat://08e991809de92c4b8e57c39589e37713765820a77e4cf248a6e87b459190855a/
https://tlg-hyphal-fusion.hashbase.io/

Corrections

I do my very best to share accurate information but I made several mistakes in this one. Most notably, I incorrectly conflate coal and oil (petroleum). This part of the conversation starts around 44:45. While lignin did indeed play a role in coal formation, and it seems likely that fungal degradation of lignin was responsible for dramatically slowing this process, the formation process for petroleum (oil) is different - and oil did not come from lignin. My sincerest apologies! Two relevant links: White Rot Fungi Slowed Coal Formation and The Petroleum Problem.

#myco #permaculture

@Teq
Voted Thanks for the transcript. Was really nice reading through as I never gotte
@Teq
Voted Dan: When I asked that – I kind of – that quote that I started off with, wa
@Teq
Voted I have gone ahead and gotten this episode transcribed by the [TypeOlogy Coo
@Teq
Voted # Dark Crystal Diaries 0: Cory Doctorow ![shibboleth.png](&TGb0PBCJgkIt7Uy
@Teq
Voted [@manni](@JSrjjJja0t6v2Lb8wQN3TPecpPMrdcOcOISsDe68dpA=.ed25519) it was actu
@Teq
Voted Oh I heard about this service too and thought it sounded awesome! I'm plodd
@Teq
Voted [@zeroz](@24Qj8pST0woTLo0zDqFDHZqIVPENnwiBeZ+3D3Sx0l8=.ed25519) not sure wh
@Teq
Voted # Transcribing The Local Gossip Episodes ## A Potential Way of Spending s
@mu
Subscribed to channel #the-local-gossip
@Jacob
Voted I'd love to hang out and represent the Scandiverse too, if you folx are up
@viktor
Re: %MdrCUXucp

I'd love to hang out and represent the Scandiverse too, if you folx are up for that :smiley:

@Jacob
Voted [@zelf](@3ZeNUiYQZisGC6PLf3R+u2s5avtxLsXC66xuK41e6Zk=.ed25519) i've been us
@cblgh
Voted Woaaah! This is super coool! Thank you [@dan hassan](@NeB4q4Hy9IiMxs5L08oev
@cblgh
Voted [@Zenna](@3ZeNUiYQZisGC6PLf3R+u2s5avtxLsXC66xuK41e6Zk=.ed25519) [@cblgh](@C
@Zenna
Re: %MdrCUXucp

Woaaah! This is super coool! Thank you @dan hassan ! :star2: :star2: :star2:

Alright! I've taken notes and we will try it out... I'm hoping to convince @Jacob and @Alex to do it before our japan trip {poke:poke} haha ;D

@Zenna
Voted [@zelf](@3ZeNUiYQZisGC6PLf3R+u2s5avtxLsXC66xuK41e6Zk=.ed25519) i've been us
@dan
Re: %MdrCUXucp

@zelf i've been using an online tool (i can send you the login credentials in a DM) called zencastr which rich suggested.

  • each person get's a link
  • service requests access to each persons local microphone
  • when the host presses record each person is recorded
  • when the host presses stop record each persons browser uploads the local recording to the podcast services servers
  • once all the wav's have been uploaded (mp3's are also uploaded) then you can click a button to "post-produce" which puts all the tracks together in one track
  • for jingles you can upload the music you like and then click a button in the interface to play it at the beginning and the end.

PROTIP:

  • remember to press record if you are the localhost! more than one of us have forgotten to over time
  • remember to ask everyone to leave their browser window open until their recording has been uploaded to the zencastr servers.

annecdotally I have found the recording which went over 60 mins got audio drift (the ep. with zach, angelica and me) so by the end there is weird mismatch in my track and their track which makes me sound like I can hear the future.

ofc you can also do all this manually. I tried to do it manually with mumble with a call between me, noffle and cel but TBH I found that too hard AND to be a localhost at the same time (though we did have other technical issues on that call).

@Rich
Voted Let's make a S C A N D I V E R S E podcast! <3 <3 there's a few ppl already
@Zenna
Re: %MdrCUXucp

no techskills required as it's all automated in the browser then main work comes in coordinating with the peers you'll be speaking with. in some cases I have found this means needing to spend some time getting to know eachother off-air etc.

So if we're gonna try out a local gossip one first, @dan hassan how do you recommend us going about's? :sparkles:

@Jacob
Voted Let's make a S C A N D I V E R S E podcast! <3 <3 there's a few ppl already
@Zenna
Re: %MdrCUXucp

Let's make a S C A N D I V E R S E podcast! <3 <3 there's a few ppl already around who might be down to talk :))

@Jacob
Voted I also had a friend of mine show me how to edit episodes... maybe [@Alex](@
@Jacob
Voted [@Jacob](@Vz6v3xKpzViiTM/GAe+hKkACZSqrErQQZgv4iqQxEn8=.ed25519) Yes! Let's
@Zenna
Re: %MdrCUXucp

I also had a friend of mine show me how to edit episodes... maybe @Alex can make a jingle and some background music we can fade between and we can get goiiing! :cherry_blossom:

@Zenna
Re: %MdrCUXucp

@Jacob Yes! Let's dooo ittttt! I found a good mic that's easy to travel with too :)

@Zenna
Voted [@Zenna](@3ZeNUiYQZisGC6PLf3R+u2s5avtxLsXC66xuK41e6Zk=.ed25519) [@cblgh](@C
@Jacob
Re: %MdrCUXucp

@Zenna @cblgh were we going to make an episode? :D seems like a good time to make one :)

@Jacob
Voted # Localhosts sought :green_heart: ![cat with foil ](&6YK/qdjU9Ft5/Ta0z3jJH
@Lando
Voted # Localhosts sought :green_heart: ![cat with foil ](&6YK/qdjU9Ft5/Ta0z3jJH
@dan

Localhosts sought :green_heart:

cat with foil

is there anyone out there who would like to try their hand at localhosting an episode?

i am here to help and support that to happen! DM's open within my hop range!

no techskills required as it's all automated in the browser then main work comes in coordinating with the peers you'll be speaking with. in some cases I have found this means needing to spend some time getting to know eachother off-air etc.

i should also note i am a total n00b at all this. i listen to LOADS of podcasts but had never produced anything prior to these experiences so most of my support will come in the form of cheerleading and mutual aid :-D

@Lando
Subscribed to channel #the-local-gossip
@Rich
Re: %nQiDw2iO/

@dan hassan oh yeah my widget was being too clever and put a rest time after you booked the first slot. I replied with a single booking

@Teq
Voted cool beans! you can [book me here](https://calendly.com/richarddbartlett).
@Teq
Voted fork from %qjJtZfxV26wu+0KVQ+pULg6gXf0jRIhCuefriutjsKo=.sha256 [@rich](@3r
@dan
Re: %nQiDw2iO/

@dick tried to book too in a row, but not sure I was successful. lemme know!

@Rich
Re: %nQiDw2iO/

cool beans! you can book me here. grab 2 slots so we are not compressed. next week is pretty chill, then life gets intense til mid March by which point i will be in EU

@Rich
Voted fork from %qjJtZfxV26wu+0KVQ+pULg6gXf0jRIhCuefriutjsKo=.sha256 [@rich](@3r
@dan

fork from %qjJtZfx...

@rich

@dan hassan

this sounds like a ripe topic for a #the-local-gossip episode with a localhost who isn't me, hint hint.

FWIW: I'm not familiar enough with localhost norms to pick up hints about how to interact with it

lets do an episode together and figure it out! i'd like to play localhost and ask you more about microsolidarity etc. you can then localhost side B & ask me about whatever :)

@Emmi Bevensee
Subscribed to channel #the-local-gossip
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@dan
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

@ktorn "So, what does anyone know? We can all theorize about this or that, but there is no substitute to actually experimenting with something. Worst-case scenario is we learn something."

+1 agree with this sentiment very much. Doing things that we don't know the outcome of seem like as good a use of energy during these times as any.

@ktorn
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

@dan hassan just skimmed the transcript and it reminded me of some of my original reservations with key sharding.

Back then I also tried to provide some ideas for workarounds and basically, like Cory, tried not to discourage the experiment, rather just point out some potential issues.

Now that I had plenty of more time to reflect on it I actually changed my stance on the whole thing. When Satoshi Nakamoto (now famously) posted the Bitcoin whitepaper on the crypography mailing list the initial reaction posts were very discouraging, in the "it cannot work" vein, and these were coming from seasoned cryptographers (which Satoshi seemingly is/was not). What did they know?

So, what does anyone know? We can all theorize about this or that, but there is no substitute to actually experimenting with something. Worst-case scenario is we learn something.

@corlock
Voted I have gone ahead and gotten this episode transcribed by the [TypeOlogy Coo
@corlock
Voted Dan: When I asked that – I kind of – that quote that I started off with, wa
@Anders
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

Thanks for the transcript. Was really nice reading through as I never gotten around to listening to it.

@cinnamon
Voted # Episode 7: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is ## On scuttlebutt, P2P, As
@dan
Re: %607dXSQuO

I am getting a transcription of sides A and B made - will release soon.

@dan
Re: %607dXSQuO

it might also be the case this thread looks very different to other people though as folx might be out of my follow range or i might have blocked them... there's no way to say what I see is the same as what others see...

@dan
Re: %607dXSQuO

@pes the only thread from that period that I have been able to find is this one

%5Auy35e...

from my reading of it though this might not be the one which anna was referring to as it feels that those contributing to this thread were aiming for harm reduction through trying to highlight the technical limitations of ssb WRT to privacy etc...

@dan
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

Cory: You know I – I mean I guess what I would like to say is I don’t mean for any of this to be discouraging. You know, often times when we start with an idea it can seem like there are some really big problems that can turn out never to materialise or that have solutions that are also in place. But like part of that idea, part of the process of ideating a new security system is also to think about how it can be hacked and often times the way it can be hacked is the way you make it stronger right, it’s where you discover new and better ways of making the security robust against different kinds of attacks. So yeah; I’m interested in seeing what you guys come up with. I mean I think like maybe taxomising threat models would be a useful next step and just having some like user stories that are based on real things. I mean Mr Cardone, Ed Snowdon; there are a bunch of people out there who have these high-risk environments and also like the opportunistic attacks; the kind of ransom where dumb-dumbs – and what they might do against this kind of thing to.

Dan: That’s all super. Thank you. So we’ve got a residency coming up with Simply Secure folk in Berlin in a couple of weeks time, where I think we’re gonna be running through a bunch of this stuff. So I’m gonna listen back to this, make some notes and then speak to some more people and then go from – go from there.

Cory: Yeah, well good luck with it. It’s been really nice chatting.

Dan: Yes. Hope you have a good day and we can fit some coffee into next week.

Cory: Yeah, that’d be nice. Alright.

Dan: Thanks for making time -

Cory: OK. Nice talking to you. Bye.

[Recording ends 35:42]

@dan
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

Cory: So let me see if I can make the point that I’m trying to make crisper here. There is a class of counter measures that networks enable, where you relieve someone of the risk of coercion by taking the thing that the coercive force wants and moving it out of their hands, moving it out of the jurisdiction of the person who’s trying to coerce them. And that is a powerful and useful tactic but it has it’s own counter measures. So a good example of this; we have a client here at the Electronic Frontier Foundation who in the court records is called Mr Cardone and he’s an Ethiopian national, he’s a dissonant journalist who lives in exile in Washington DC. And the Ethiopian government bought a zero-day hacking tool to break into his Skype, from a now disgraced and collapsed Italian company called Hackintin. And they broke into his Skype in Washington DC from Addis Abuba and they mined his list of contacts in Addis Abuba; the people who were giving him the material he needed to publish anonymously sourced, devastating reports on corruption in the government and they rounded up all his friends in Addis Abuba and tortured them. And so the technology that giveth the power for someone who is out of harms way to be a proxy or fiduciary for someone who is at risk is also the power for the person at risk to be held hostage to the person who is playing the fiduciary. And there’s two models for how you ally with your fiduciary right; one is through a kind of legal duty and the rule of law, so you have lawyers that you trust and those lawyers are – or a fiduciary of some other kind and they are bound by a code of professional conduct and maybe even given special legal powers like the power to resist certain orders compelling them to show evidence, like an attorney-client privilege. And so you trust them because you trust that the rule of law is intact and that has a weakness in that the rule of law is not always intact and the rule of law is a lot more contingent than we’d like it to be and particularly contingent on the whims of powerful people and that is a trend that is accelerating – in part I think we should note because crypto currency is letting Oligarchs launder money. And then the other model for this is that you have someone you love and trust, who you think would never betray you and you’re not relying on the rule of law, you’re relying on these human factors. But those human factors are the very human factors that you then get turned against you when someone kidnaps your wife or husband or kid or whatever and says tell me what their password is or they’re never getting out of jail. And so they both have their weaknesses like a lot – well I think like all security measures, they have to be deployed against a threat model that correctly assesses what risk you are going to be put to and by whom. And so if you use fiduciaries where the rule of law is weak then you will be exposed and if you used loved ones where, you know, your counter party understands – that the rule of law is strong but your counter party understands that, you know, your friend back in a safe place has no rights as to stop them from torturing you, then you’re also exposed. And so assessing the threat is really important to understanding the counter measure.

Dan: So what’s loud and clear is – This is earlier what you meant by [inaudible 32:10] analysis. So essentially threat modelling, working out specifically what the different constraints are and then working, with those in mind, with the understanding that there’s no such thing as perfect security and…

Cory: Well it’s not that there’s no such thing as perfect security, it’s that security is only ever secure as against an attack right? You can have perfect flood security but it won’t stop your house from burning down and so –

Dan: True.

Cory: And security’s always relative, you know. Like bank robbers are more secure when bank vaults are less secure. So there’s – It is always relative to a person and always relative to the threat that person fears and it’s just – It just doesn’t – Like there isn’t a shadow on Plato’s wall that says ‘security’ over it; there’s only security in context.

Dan: Very true. Cory; as I suspected would happen, my brain’s fully saturated from having bounced this off your brain, which was in part the hope. I know you have loads of calls lined up after this, so I’m kind of – I’m good. Do you have any questions?

Cory: No. This was a really interesting discussion.

Dan: [Inaudible 33:45] Dark Crystal?

@dan
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

Dan: Yeah, that’s – I’m feeling a lot of things in relation to that. I guess – So one of the things I’m feeling is one; do we know what we’re – So in your simplified example it’s one person. So let’s keep it at one, although it could be ten or whatever -

Cory: Yeah.

Dan: - making it more complex. So the thing is, as you’re passing through the border, you as an individual they’d say what’s the password and you’re like aha I don’t know, I can’t actually tell you. And they’re like; well you wouldn’t just be carrying around this hunk of machinery as a like paperweight, so how is it - So in that scenario we’re assuming it would get to a point where he reveals that there would be someone who could help get that through. And so what’s happening in that instance is you’ve moved from being an individual to being kind of part of a small group of people and what we’re essentially – what I’m hearing you worry about is are people ready to essentially be responsible to each other even in knarly situations.

Cory: Aha.

Dan: And so, to loop back round to kind of the beginning of the Dark Crystal Project. I guess one of the gambits was – it feels like at the heart a lot of the more libertarian end of the spectrum of crypto currencies, is this notion that at the end point of society there is this kind of rational, informed, logical individual and that the price of entry into these systems is that that rational, logical individual is able to keep data secure and yes it’s a hard problem but if someone is kind of, an activated human, then they will be able to figure that out. Now I’m not in that camp of people, I’m more in the camp of people to whom the end point of society isn’t individuals, it’s individuals in relation to other people make up kind of groups of various kind of strengthly-kintted social fabric. And so a part of me feels that probably in terms of technology and data and these types of things, that sounds like – although a thorny problem, maybe one that it’s good for us humans to be thinking about in the times coming ahead; things that make us think about how technology can strengthen and amplify our social fabric and kind of get us to level up in that kind of Walk Away sense.

Cory: Yeah.

Dan: It was really – yeah it was really at the heart of the gambit at the heart of Dark Crystal which was it’s possible to reconfigure the sum of the component parts within crypto currencies in a way that’s more social, that kind of doesn’t amplify alienation in a way I find crypto currencies can tend towards. Rather a way of using technology to strengthen social fabric and part of that is knowing how to weather storms together.

Cory: Aha.

Dan: Cause when I think of Aaron Schwartz, like his footprint isn’t just digital, it’s also the relationships which have carried his memory and kind of mission forward as well. He wasn’t just this brilliant – he wasn’t just a brilliant individual, though he was that. To kind of hear where I’m coming from – So basically what I’m saying TLDR is; yes I agree with your analysis that that is a problem. But I think it’s probably the right type of problem; it’s in the right neighbourhood, in the right direction for us to be figuring out together.

@dan
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

Dan: They’re – they’re rad. I want to get to know them more. But anyway, so this side project was called Scatter Secrets, which was coming at it from the angle of if you’re trying to move across borders where there’s a probability of your devices being taken from you and you’re trying to bring documents with you, it’s essentially this notion of – it’s called Scatter Secrets I think [inaudible 20:11] but essentially you split those secrets out to people across the border and then reassemble them at the other end. And [inaudible 20:21] within our project is like hey that’s super neat but if you have documents that are worth the trouble of identifying who those six people are, that’s not great news.

Cory: Yeah.

Dan: So I guess these are questions similar to what happened kind of post-modem; is he would initially have reached out to Glenn Romore, then connected out to Nietzsche to see if he could help get [inaudible 20:48] up and running with GPG. The thing is, he couldn’t say: “Oh by the way, if you accept this, you’re gonna implicate yourself in something really big.”

Cory: Yeah.

Dan: And so it’s this thing of, at a smaller scale, how do we build this in a consentful way so that people have time to think this stuff through -

Cory: I think there’s another inverse of that threat model that is worth thinking about. So I as a thought experiment, once proposed that you could create like ten pass phrases for your crypted disc, using just a strong password generator. So they’d just be random hundred and twenty-eight character strings and you would obviously not know any of those strings but you’d have your regular disc-unlocking password that’s just a long password. And the threat – the thing that I was trying to accomplish was you want to go somewhere with your computer and you trust that when you’re not at a border, there’s some rule of law but you also think that when you’re passing through a border the rule of law is suspended. Which, you know it’s a pretty good description of a lot of places, where the rule of law doesn’t apply even when you’re past the border and I think we don’t always know where those places are – I mean that guy who just got hauled into parliament and made to log into his Dropbox account to give up some Facebook documents is an interesting example of how what you might think of as your rights outside of the border are not your rights. But you know, stipulate for the sake of argument, that you could at least call a lawyer and argue about whether or not you have to hand over your password once you’re clear of the border but not was you’re in the border, not while you’re in the border. And you want to get some work done right and so you want to bring your laptop and use it on the plane, you want to use it on the other side. And so you have these ten passwords and you get in a cab to go to the airport and the first password in the list is your memorable password. You type it in and you work all the way to the airport and then you delete the password and now you can’t log into your laptop. You go through customs and you call your room mate and you say: “Tell me what the first encrypted password is.” and you type it in and change it to your memorable password, get on your plane to say Singapore on your way to Australia and get off the plane at Singapore, delete your memorable password again. Now you can’t log into your laptop. Go through customs, buy a smoothie, sit down in the departure lounge and call your friend and say: “Give me password number two.” and then you enter password number two and then you work again on the plane and then when you’re remaining in Sydney, you delete your password, you go through customs, when you get out of customs on the other side, you call your friend and you say unlock it. You do it all in reverse on the way home. And so in theory this works really well because your friend is outside the coerce or force of the state and as long as you’re right about where the state can coerce you, as long as it’s only at borders, then you’re in really good shape. And I mentioned this to a friend, actually the lawyer who’s sitting a hundred yards from me who has my password in case I drop dead and she said: “Oh yeah, they’ll just arrest you and call your friend and they’ll say if you ever want to see Cory again, you’d better give me his password.”. And so this is another way that people can be coerced right? They can be coerced not just by being like put to risk but by being made to decide whether or not you can be a free man right and that’s an incredible conundrum to plunge someone else into non-consensually or even consensually. It’s a very tough thing.

@dan
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

Cory: OK. So I wonder, you know, as a security measure, how hard it would be if you had a big data set of trusted – of trusted third parties or trusted, you know, fall back people, how hard it would be to figure out who those people were and maybe suborn them and you know, it’s this – cause we have these weird [inaudible 15:38] on the internet that are things like ransom threat – you know, like the half-smart ransom threat model, which is -

Dan: Yes.

Cory: You know, the dumb ransom threat model is I’ll just high-jack anything I can and ask for ransom right. That’s how you get like idiots high-jacking NHS hospitals and asking for three hundred dollars to unhigh-jack them. You know. But the half-smart one is; I have like an opportunistic attack where I can look at a huge data set of leaked accounts or you know, some other big, leaked, breached data set and then I can sort it by some field that will tell me who’s worth fucking. And then I can then go to those people and do the leg work necessary to figure out who their trusted third parties are and I can fish those people. And I wonder if like that wouldn’t create a bunch of really chewy, complicated security problems. I mean, one of the things that’s in Walk Away is that they’re sceptical of [inaudible 16:35] secrets, in part because complexity is the enemy of good security and you know, having this kind of ever expanding cloud that’s like geometrically expanding cloud of I trust you and these nine other people, any five of them and they all have their own list of ten with any five and you know, figuring out like is there like six of them you could roll up and like suborn and then get access to a whole ton of stuff. Like it’s a – it’s a very complicated and difficult question and I think it’s fun to do thought experiments with but it’s the kind of thing that before you ever ask someone to entrust something to, it’s the kind of thing that you really want read teams to look at. Cause I know that, you know, in the aggregate our social behaviour is a lot more deterministic than we think it is, particularly if you only care about one or two sigmas. If you just want to compromise – If you say that within any four million people that you are compromisable there’ll be two hundred that are really worth compromising then – which seems to me like kind of there’s a rule of thumb, probably like a pretty conservative estimate, then – asking yourself whether you could get two hundred account thefts out of a breech set of four million, which is a small breech set, by doing them – You know, essentially by doing the equivalent of checking if anyone’s password is ‘password’, right whether anyone’s like fallback is their mum, their wife, their dad and their boss. You know, then I worry that it creates a very compromisable environment.

Dan: One of the other themes which I’ve just heard as well is kind of, do we know what we’re getting ourselves in for? So it’s this what does consent mean in the field of new and unknown. So in version one of Dark Crystal it was – once we knew what the problem was that we were experimenting with – the first version was – is the kind of non-ideal, hacky, get it as close to something as possible. The side effect of – the side effect of that is that at the moment you can essentially implicate or others in the project would say, ideally speak to people before sending it off to them, but essentially you can send people secrets without necessarily in a problematic way, garnering consent from them. And so this brings up a whole kind of ethical question of yeah do people know what it is that they’re getting themselves in for. A related project that I’ve come by which is connected to – I’ve forgotten which uni it came out of. [Inaudible 19:30] Erin and Ian Goldberg I think. I forget which university but I saw it pop up on the open privacy – Sarah or Jamie Wilson have they ever popped up on your radar?

Cory: No, I’ve never heard of it.

@dan
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

Dan: Yes, OK. So there’s a current, emergent way to try and understand those kind of people-centred technologies as being less – less about trying to make people do things in a computer way and more thinking about how can we make computers mimic the way people do things. So one of the problems that we had at the beginning of what was the genesis of the Dark Crystal project, was to get people access to these systems you needed to teach people password managers and I don’t know if you know this, statistically speaking I think, about between seventeen and eighteen percent of Bitcoins that have ever been – or ever will be generated, statistically speaking, look like they’ve kind of been lost. And so I’ve got this kind of small – and by that I mean you would expect some small fraction of a larger holdings to have been moved or sold off during peaks of changes in price and there’s like whole trenches of coins which just haven’t moved in a super long time so the speculation is they’ve been lost. And so kind of – I extrapolate from that and go; well if you can’t pay people to learn how to use password managers securely then it’s highly unlikely that people thus incentivised, will be able to. And so if at the core of managing our data more securely, it’s gonna rely on password managers then we’re kind of screwed. Although this isn’t me saying don’t use them; I think they’re super important. But the thing that I really like about the arc within Walk Away is the sense that is I do think people are able to problem solve things like OK I think I have my apartment and who would I leave my key with in case I lose my wallet and my keys. And that’s kind of a much more human thing which I think most people can do to some degree. So essentially we’re thinking about who would I trust how much and for how long?
So in your travels with the experiences that you’ve had that made you think about that stuff, has anyone else come and spoken to you since that kind of theme within the book or have you kind of learnt about any other projects in that realm that have kind of added some recourse to the tale?

Cory: Well the thing that comes to mind is a presentation I recently saw at the Swiss Cyber Storm Conference where the Googler who’s in charge of their password recovery and anti-fishing, talked about how the system relies on a whole bunch of heuristics that are not either the things your stupid bank ask you when they’re like: “We’re looking at your credit report, can you tell me how much you spent last week on Amazon?” as a way of validating you, but instead like a bunch of stuff like: “Which of these six people do you know?” or you know: “Which of these four cafes did you go to the last time you were in Berlin?” Which, you know, creepy that they know all that shit but at the same time it does look a lot more like how we might authenticate a person. And, you know, in some ways these are all just shibboleths right, like things that are – that can only be pronounced by the trusted parties and that the untrusted parties can’t pronounce. And you know, I think that often times shibboleths can lead us astray, that we often assume that they’re harder to forge than they turn out to be. I mean think of all those green activists in the UK who got fooled by, you know, coppers who grew out dreadlocks and learnt to speak like anti-third-runway types and then, you know, went on to impregnate some of them. But, you know, as an adjunct to or maybe as something that is computationally managed and has maybe some calculable complexity or, you know, that can be thought of against a large data set and you can say well what is the proportion of people in this you know, huge league data set that we have, who would have been made secure by the deployment of given shibboleths then maybe we can do – add scale automated versions of this stuff.

Dan: And that’s something that, in my research around this stuff, is like what does already exist? And I think in 2000 people left their work on Facebook, a lot of the time with good reason but I often wonder what it’s like in the belly of the beast when you’ve got these wicked smart people kind of thinking about this stuff. And in 2011 – I’m gonna screw up the names because it’s not that much in my brain but something like Trusted Contacts, where essentially it’s the same thing where someone’s lost their phone, access to their email and they can’t remember their password and they don’t want to provide identification to some unknown person within Facebook, then you can, in your setting, set up trusted contacts where as long as you can remember one of them, when you’ve forgotten your password, then those three to five people that you’ve identified get sent and code and then you’re meant to be able to ring them out of band - so on the phone or whatever. And what’s interesting is in my – since learning about that I’ve tried to find people who have used it – within this centralised context, what I’ve found is often people don’t – it’s not often nowadays that people kind of lose phone and email and aren’t willing to show ID. However in these peer-to-peer systems there is no Facebook, there’s no person that you can go back - so we’re kind of left with not many of the centralised options. OK -

@dan
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

Dan: When I asked that – I kind of – that quote that I started off with, was enough to kind of spurn around ten of us, at times more, on this year or two year journey, kind of delving deeper into that problem. So it doesn’t surprise me to hear that you – that the story that you’ve just related so rich – I’m really sorry about the tragedy-studded nature of it but I think that kind of, what you’ve highlighted is something that any person who maintains a relationship with the internet, whether they think about it or not – this has kind of come up in some shape or form. And so at the heart of Dark Crystal was the question of – although it was slightly orthogonal, it was how – when we say peer-to-peer, peer-to-peer, who are the peers that we’re considering, because although Block Chain is one sub set, it’s one of the ones which has been getting a lot of hype and air-time. Typically the composition of people is not super diverse and so the beginning of the project was figuring out what would it mean to expand who gets to be a peer in these systems and we should shout out to [inaudible 06:52] who in the money lab [inaudible 06:57] postcards from the future, was kind of – is also one of our advisors actually. I should get her on to say this stuff in her own words. That kind of figuring out who gets to be a peer and peer-to-peer systems, when you’re focussing on that custody problem, it really quickly gets into the realm of how do you securely pass data across transformations – so be it death or incapacitation or if you’re crossing a border and your stuff gets seized or other such, has been a problem that probably we could spend a whole number of years on. And one of the things that really inspired me about the way that you wrote about [inaudible 07:45] secret sharing was that it was so closely mapped to the relationships of the characters in the story. And what I really liked about the novel or that theme in the story was although it was a deeply technological question, it was kind of, the technology needed to get out of the way and figure out how the humans would do it in any case and I know that’s something – that feature of Walk Away, this notion of kind of, human relationships amplified by technology is the theme that’s really inspired a lot of the Scuttlebutt folk. Have you – I know that you’ve written about Scuttlebutt before, have you like tried it out, have you looked at it -

Cory: No.

Dan: - has anyone around you showed it or…

Cory: No. I don’t have anyone to Scuttlebutt with. This is the problem with social technologies.

@dan
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

I have gone ahead and gotten this episode transcribed by the TypeOlogy Coop

transcription notes: https://hackmd.io/7jlFc7B2TE2MJxgB3z5zOg

request!: anyone with inclination and some moments could you help finish the transcription?


File: Dark Crystal Diaries 1

Dan: Hello everyone out there in cyber space. This is Dan Hassan and I am with Cory Doctorow. This is the first in a series called Dark Crystal Diaries, where we’ll be speaking to friends, peers and advisors connected to the Dark Crystal project. Cory; I’m not gonna use the precious time that we have to introduce you. I think the typical audience for this are all gonna know who you are [inaudible 0:31] link out to a recent show that you did with Jamie King on Steal This Show, which I think is probably a good primer for this.

Cory: Yep.

Dan: So the short hand of how we’ve come to be on this call is that Cory and I have a mutual friend Emily Jones, who has connected us both. So Cory, at first when I reached out to you, I think the way that I framed the project was kind of based in the history of crypto currencies and you’re pretty well documented as being a sceptic of kind of a lot of the block chain hype and I think I miss-pitched dark crystal to begin with but it’s really good that I did I think, because we’ve come through to the other side to something where you have agreed to kind of, consider working with us a bit more. So I’m just gonna read something from Walk Away which – the reason being is it’s right at the kernel, the seed of why I was interested in speaking with you and that is from Kindle page five ten. There’s plenty of crypto we need to try and figure this out, using shared secrets to split the key into say, ten pieces as such that any five can be used to unlock the file. Do you remember writing that?

Cory: Oh yeah. Sure. Yeah.

Dan: And so I’m super interested in the conversations that would have lead kind of into that arch within Walk Away coming out. Was that stuff that was of interest to you for your own reading or do you know, as you put it, a number of crypto [inaudible 02:24] ?

Cory: Well a little of both and really you know, the thing that got me thinking about how you would intentionally share your data with trusted parties after you were no longer able to control it, like after you were dead, was that a very dear friend of mine and a technologist who I grew up with; a guy named Eric Stuart who went by [inaudible 02:48] died of a freak brain aneurysm when he was in his early forties. He just went to bed one night and never woke up. And you know, lucky stroke for all of us, he had left his computers on with his encrypted discs all mounted and no screen lock and I went over and plugged a terabyte hard drive in and captured all of his data and reincrypted it and stuck it in an Amazon glacier locker and pre-paid for ten years of storage for his parents until they could figure out what to do with his data. And you know, around about the same time I think it was my friend Charlie Straw mentioned that by such and such a year – twenty-twenty or twenty-thirty – some pretty soon year, the majority of internet users would be dead right, the majority of people who’d ever used the internet would be dead and their data footprints would be all over the internet. You know, also around that same time my friend Erin Schwartz hanged himself after he’d been hounded by US federal prosecuters for downloading scientific articles from MIT’s network and he had a very prolific data footprint that his friends struggled to figure out what to do with. And there was also, around that time, a cryptographer who was driving back from a cryto-conference – I don’t know his name because I only saw the presentation by his friend the next year, but he and his wife were in a car wreck that killed him and being a cryptographer, all of his data was really, really well encrypted and he’d never figured out any kind of succession plan. So all of those things got me thinking and you know, I have a data will that explains what I would like done with my data and also how to access all my data and you know, there are master passwords needed to get that and that master password has been split into two pieces that I hand wrote on slips of paper and I gave half of it to a lawyer in San Francisco, who is actually sitting about fifty yards from where I am now and the other to a lawyer in London, on the theory that it would be much harder to compel disclosure from lawyers in two different jurisdictions than it would be for one, along with instructions of when I’d like that stuff turned over to my wife or someone else if I were incapacitated or dead or whatever. And thinking about all of that and how thorny that problem is and how potentially compromising it is to trust third parties with access to all of your data while you’re alive and how potentially terrible it is for your loved ones not to be able to access your data after you’re dead and trying to figure out how to strike a balance between those two tensions. That was something that I really have been thinking about a lot.

@kawaiipunk
Voted # Episode 7: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is ## On scuttlebutt, P2P, As
@Jim
Voted # Episode 7: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is ## On scuttlebutt, P2P, As
@Rich
Re: %607dXSQuO

I had a lot of thoughts about this so I posted them on Twitter where Marissa can participate.

@personanonduvda
Subscribed to channel #the-local-gossip
@personanonduvda
Voted # Episode 7: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is ## On scuttlebutt, P2P, As
@government_spy_maybe
Subscribed to channel #the-local-gossip
@Rich
Re: %607dXSQuO

Listened to both sides today. The vibe shifts a lot when the localhost shifts eh!

Thanks for your work @dan hassan. I thought the conversation was slow according to some metrics, but then also extremely revealing and deep too. And even a slow conversation is really nice to listen to when the people are warm and interesting.

I really appreciate the sorta diplomacy work you are doing in communicating between people who are most marginalised, and the people who are build technology they hope is liberating for all humans.

I didn't really understand what happened with the sex worker thread in SSB. Would love a link to the original if someone can find it.

@mnin
Voted hey I just wanted to ask if there is a rss feed somewhere? thank you for yo
@mnin
Voted I met up with both marissa and anna in london and we plan to make another r
@mnin
Voted # Episode 7: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is ## On scuttlebutt, P2P, As
@methyltheobromine
Re: %607dXSQuO

hey I just wanted to ask if there is a rss feed somewhere? thank you for your great work <3

@Teq
Voted # Episode 7: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is ## On scuttlebutt, P2P, As
@methyltheobromine
Voted # Episode 7: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is ## On scuttlebutt, P2P, As
@pes
Re: %607dXSQuO

What's the SSB thread discussed in part B?

@sera
Subscribed to channel #the-local-gossip
@peg
Voted Marissa has released on soundcloud and made some awesome art for it :) ![
@Marco
Re: %607dXSQuO

<3 <3 <3

@Marco
Voted I met up with both marissa and anna in london and we plan to make another r
@dan
Re: %607dXSQuO

I met up with both marissa and anna in london and we plan to make another recording within the next month...

@Mindy Seu
Voted # Episode 7: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is ## On scuttlebutt, P2P, As
@Ed Summers
Voted [@Ed Summers](@n2ax/dvrm+u76UhEv6aN0MzlH0Zw7o0MOd5QIHjouSw=.ed25519) one of
@Marco
Voted # Dark Crystal Diaries 0: Cory Doctorow ![shibboleth.png](&TGb0PBCJgkIt7Uy
@Marco
Subscribed to channel #the-local-gossip
@Marco
Voted [@Ed Summers](@n2ax/dvrm+u76UhEv6aN0MzlH0Zw7o0MOd5QIHjouSw=.ed25519) one of
@Jacob (desktop)
Voted [@Ed Summers](@n2ax/dvrm+u76UhEv6aN0MzlH0Zw7o0MOd5QIHjouSw=.ed25519) one of
@personanonduvda
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

Thanks Dan, very much appreciated.

Trust, trust is a strange thing.

@enkiv2
Voted That shit about torturing friends and family is not chill. I was wondering
@enkiv2
Voted [@dan hassan android](@bC52DlvFXtmI9aBCRENa9kCGGTg1YJQYMB4zEofYAnA=.ed25519
@dan
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

@Ed Summers one of my jobs over the next period will be to figure out RSS for #the-local-gossip to make it easier for people to plug into their existing feeds...

@Ed Summers
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

Thanks for this! If there are going to be more of these I'd love to have a podcast url to put in my player.

@Ed Summers
Voted # Dark Crystal Diaries 0: Cory Doctorow ![shibboleth.png](&TGb0PBCJgkIt7Uy
@kieran
Voted # Dark Crystal Diaries 0: Cory Doctorow ![shibboleth.png](&TGb0PBCJgkIt7Uy
@d6e
Voted # Dark Crystal Diaries 0: Cory Doctorow ![shibboleth.png](&TGb0PBCJgkIt7Uy
@jasongreen
Voted # Dark Crystal Diaries 0: Cory Doctorow ![shibboleth.png](&TGb0PBCJgkIt7Uy
@Zabet R.
Subscribed to channel #the-local-gossip
@Jacob
Voted That shit about torturing friends and family is not chill. I was wondering
@Jacob
Voted This is super conceptually dense hehe. I feel like by the end of the record
@Jacob
Voted # Dark Crystal Diaries 0: Cory Doctorow ![shibboleth.png](&TGb0PBCJgkIt7Uy
@Rich
Voted That shit about torturing friends and family is not chill. I was wondering
@mix
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

That shit about torturing friends and family is not chill.
I was wondering in the shower though about if the secrets we're holding are mainly money / asset related then a good solution to not getting tortured is to not be disproportionately rich?!

This certainly raises a bunch of flags about just casually wandering into the border-crossing problem. That is not a simple case at all.

@polylith
Voted [@dan hassan android](@bC52DlvFXtmI9aBCRENa9kCGGTg1YJQYMB4zEofYAnA=.ed25519
@nanomonkey
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

@dan hassan android, when I met him he mentioned that he had only kicked the tires. I noticed in your cast he sad that he had no one to connect to...was this not, a subtle request for an invite??? You should definitely send him a pub invite, or give him my contact info (if he's still in SF), so that we can on-board him and anyone else at EFF. I'm sure that there are other scuttlebutt ambassadors in other cities that would be happy to do the same.

@peg
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

really enjoyed this! got me excited about the different directions all this could go! and he raised some points to consider carefully...

how cool to have an advisor who is involved in the electronic frontier foundation. so crazy that example with the etheopian journalist. When folks are being paranoid I always think 'yeah but governments don't actually bother hacking into your accounts and stuff...' and then i hear a story like that.

@peg
Voted # Dark Crystal Diaries 0: Cory Doctorow ![shibboleth.png](&TGb0PBCJgkIt7Uy
@Connor
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

thanks for sharing Dan. Fascinating listen

@Connor
Voted # Dark Crystal Diaries 0: Cory Doctorow ![shibboleth.png](&TGb0PBCJgkIt7Uy
@kawaiipunk
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

This is super conceptually dense hehe. I feel like by the end of the recording @dan hassan was feeling much the same as I am feeling now listening to it :laughing:

@kawaiipunk
Voted # Dark Crystal Diaries 0: Cory Doctorow ![shibboleth.png](&TGb0PBCJgkIt7Uy
@bobhaugen
Voted In my happy fun place world, you did.
@nanomonkey
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

In my happy fun place world, you did.

@nanomonkey
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

Did you just prove to Cory that you are actually dan by posting that?!

@mycognosist
Voted # Dark Crystal Diaries 0: Cory Doctorow ![shibboleth.png](&TGb0PBCJgkIt7Uy
@neftaly
Subscribed to channel #the-local-gossip
@polylith
Voted # Dark Crystal Diaries 0: Cory Doctorow ![shibboleth.png](&TGb0PBCJgkIt7Uy
@hoodownr
Voted # Dark Crystal Diaries 0: Cory Doctorow ![shibboleth.png](&TGb0PBCJgkIt7Uy
@dan
Re: %YQqmTXmHM

backlink: Asking Cory Doctrow to be an Advisor for Dark Crystal

@dan

Dark Crystal Diaries 0: Cory Doctorow

shibboleth.png

https://keybase.pub/danielsan/the-local-gossip/the-local-gossip-NeB4q4Hy-8-dark-crystal-diaries-0-cory-doctorow/dark-crystal-diaries-0-cory-doctorow.mp3

tags: #darkcrystal #dark-crystal #dark-crystal-diaries

@Jules
Subscribed to channel #the-local-gossip
@grammolan
Voted # Episode 7: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is ## On scuttlebutt, P2P, As
@Jessica
Voted [@zeroz](@24Qj8pST0woTLo0zDqFDHZqIVPENnwiBeZ+3D3Sx0l8=.ed25519) not sure wh
@VictorMag (notebook)
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@manni
Voted [@manni](@JSrjjJja0t6v2Lb8wQN3TPecpPMrdcOcOISsDe68dpA=.ed25519) it was actu
@dan
Re: %wTU3UxCKJ

@zeroz check them out - they are awesome!

https://typeology.co.uk/

@dan
Re: %jTqp1ZyQ2

In %F5rDVms... there was a suggestion.

@nanomonkey
"What medium are these done over? Mumble? Would it be possible to make the invitation open ended to all that are interested? Can we bend this medium to our collective wills?"

Lets make it happen! Interested to hear thoughts on how we should format the chaos - if at all :)

@dan

The Local Gossip Open Airwaves

3cr-radio-freedom-mic-fist.jpg

Join this scry (use mix's infinite game or patchbay): %WCeOR3g...

And select a time for a recorded on the record hang session. Don't know what will happen!

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@dan
Voted Yep, sounds like a great idea! How would those transcripts been presented t
@dan
Re: %wTU3UxCKJ

@KawaiiPunk good question. I think they should be available in multiple forms.

I think for episodes which are particularly impactful and communicate the culture and people and stakes it might be worth exposing them on the www. not sure. What do you think?

@an na
Voted Marissa has released on soundcloud and made some awesome art for it :) ![
@an na
Voted Opening and closing tracks of both sides A and B: https://soundcloud.com/d
@an na
Voted # Episode 7: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is ## On scuttlebutt, P2P, As
@squicc
Voted # Transcribing The Local Gossip Episodes ## A Potential Way of Spending s
@kawaiipunk
Re: %wTU3UxCKJ

Yep, sounds like a great idea! How would those transcripts been presented to readers? On the dat site?

@kawaiipunk
Voted # Transcribing The Local Gossip Episodes ## A Potential Way of Spending s
@dan
Re: %wTU3UxCKJ

@manni it was actually seeing your transcription which really solidified just how useful they are - I'm a listener rather than a reader and even I found it super useful ;-D

@mycognosist
Voted Marissa has released on soundcloud and made some awesome art for it :) ![
@dan
Voted Oh I heard about this service too and thought it sounded awesome! I'm plodd
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@manni
Re: %wTU3UxCKJ

Oh I heard about this service too and thought it sounded awesome! I'm plodding away at the transcription very slowly so I think using that service is a great idea @dan hassan

@dan
Re: %wTU3UxCKJ

@zeroz not sure what's surreal about this? To me it makes so much sense.

Many, many of the most potently productive people I know are those with many unmoving constraints placed upon their capacities (racism, ill-health, children, etc) - often times formal work environments have not yet figured out how to value or synchronise with these realities and so you see this super human effort put in by folks fitting into boxes which weren't designed for bodies such as theirs in mind.

A project such as this transcription service is genious. It's mobile, you can work from a hospital waiting room, a bed or from anywhere whilst also eeking out a living within this system.

So much knowledge is locked up in podcasts and they are a major way in which people around the globe are engaging in knowledge production. I have pointed out before that so much knowledge is locked up in books ofc and podcasts allow someone to work a deskjob but have their mind engaged in some more enlivening.

I also love this coop as entities which are transcribing their materials will often be doing it to make the materials more accessible to people of different capacities then getting people of different physical capacities to be involved in and get added to the value flows of making materials more accessible is a virtuous cycle.

@dan
Re: %607dXSQuO

Marissa has released on soundcloud and made some awesome art for it :)

the-local-gossip-marissa-anna-dan-put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is.jpeg

https://soundcloud.com/bad-hands-blog/sets/the-local-gossip-podcast-ep-7-w-anna-tuononen-dan-hassan-and-marissa-malik

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@dan
Voted [@dan hassan](@NeB4q4Hy9IiMxs5L08oevEhivxW+/aDu/s/0SkNayi0=.ed25519) Transc
@hahawat
Voted # Transcribing The Local Gossip Episodes ## A Potential Way of Spending s
@bobhaugen
Voted [@dan hassan](@NeB4q4Hy9IiMxs5L08oevEhivxW+/aDu/s/0SkNayi0=.ed25519) Transc
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@elavoie
Re: %wTU3UxCKJ

@dan hassan Transcripts work significantly better for me, I read 3-4x faster than I listen to audio.

@cel
Voted # Episode 6: #talenet, #35c3 and #1komona ## Featuring [@katze](@3a/8Vgf
@mycognosist
Voted # Transcribing The Local Gossip Episodes ## A Potential Way of Spending s
@dan

Transcribing The Local Gossip Episodes

A Potential Way of Spending some of the :money_with_wings: Open Collective Scuttlebucks :money_with_wings:

Stoer-Lighthouse-Rachel-Wright.jpg

I recently came by this tweet in the twitter-sphere:

We are a workers' co-op founded by disabled people who make audio transcripts. If you have a podcast and funding for transcription (we know not everyone does), contact us!

In episode 7, side B one of the tangible steps which was highlighted could be taken to improve accessibility and diversity within SSB was to back up our values by money (put our money where our mouths are). I've seen so many early signs that we're working in the right direction with this.

When I saw the TypeOlogy service I thought it was synergistically timed to have seen it and also a way which can "Put our Money where our Mouths are", whilst also creating artifacts (podcasts + transcription) which will drift out into the world and communicate not just content about the scuttleverse but also demonstrate our values (through making transacriptions available AND the process we go to acheive that).

I know @manni has been transcribing some of the episodes (which is amazing) AND I am wary of assuming she will do all of them inbetween sessional work.

Quotes

Hi Dan

Great to hear from you - I had been getting round to replying to you on Twitter but we have been slightly overwhelmed by the amount of Twitter attention we have been getting after one tweet apparently went "viral"...

We would love to do this as it fits perfectly in with our aims and values! Our standard rate is £1 per minute and having listened to a bit of the podcast you linked in your tweet it sounds like we'd have no problem transcribing it at that rate if the sound quality is consistent (the issues that might require us to charge a higher rate would include poor recording quality, background noise or a lot of people talking over each other).

We might also be able to transcribe some of your podcasts at a somewhat lower rate (say maybe 90p per minute) if you are not particularly concerned about how fast we do it - we would then basically fit them around other more urgent jobs that we charge a higher rate for and do them when we don't have something more urgent to do. This might be a good option for a back catalogue of stuff?

In terms of exchange rates between UK and US currencies, we would want to invoice maybe every 2 weeks (or every week if you prefer it) to take into account possible fluctuations.

Really hoping we can make this work! Please let us know if there's anything else you need to know.

Estimated costs

If we went for the slower rate this would be 90p per min which is about 1.2 USD per minute at current rates this would be about

54 GBP per episode which is about 70 USD per episode.

We could of course set a cap per episode and then transcribe the rest ourselves.

So far there have been about 7 episodes so we are averaging about 2 episodes per month...

This is about 140 USD per month (assuming no change in velocity)

Questions

  • Do you listen to #the-local-gossip and find they have had content of value?
  • Would a transcription with the episode make them more accessible for you?
  • Would you feel happy to have the transcriptions / episodes floating out in the world as cypher gems which speak to our early culture and some of the characters shaping the cypherspace?
  • Concerns?

tags: #podcasts #podcast #a11y #accessibility #transcriptions

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@dan
Voted Listening now. Damn, we've had so much trouble getting a time together fo
@dan
Voted damn 1 minute in to side B and I'm like YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS FUCK
@zerocipher
Voted # Episode 7: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is ## On scuttlebutt, P2P, As
@zerocipher
Voted damn 1 minute in to side B and I'm like YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS FUCK
@kawaiipunk
Re: %NFWTU0JSW

damn 1 minute in to side B and I'm like YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

FUCK THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE UP AMEN

@kawaiipunk
Re: %NFWTU0JSW

Listening now.

Damn, we've had so much trouble getting a time together for my episode. Zelf has been sososo helpful making a poll when I wasn't able to.

We should do one also!

@NicoPace
Voted # Episode 7: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is ## On scuttlebutt, P2P, As
@mycognosist
Voted # Episode 7: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is ## On scuttlebutt, P2P, As
@dan
Re: %607dXSQuO

back-cypher-link:

%NFWTU0J...

@dan
Re: %607dXSQuO

Opening and closing tracks of both sides A and B:

https://soundcloud.com/diaspoura/gtf

@dan

Episode 7: Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is

On scuttlebutt, P2P, Astrology, Queering the Internet, Sex Work, Designing With and for the Margins, Internet and Intersections of Oppressions

Featuring Anna (they/them) and Marrisa (she/they)

mariimals-tarot-deck.jpg

this is a card from a tarot deck Marissa has been designing this summer. It will be called KAALA BLANCA after my mother tongues, and it will be gender nonbinary. source: twitter

Show Notes

Wow. I have already listened back to this twice. I am time scarce right now so want to start this thread and keep going with it.

This conversation really didn't go the way that I was expecting it to. A really nice thing happened where I took my foot off the gas and Anna took over as localhost for Side B. I thought what my job was was to communicate the value and reason for living of SSB to someone who wasn't on SSB (marissa). You can hear this in side A where I attempt to find a shared starting point and then go from there. We then took a break.

In the break we jumped into some really potent socio-technical aspects of the system where it just made sense to shift focus, gears and localhost.

It has dawned on me that the purpose and potential of these the-local-gossip episodes is twofold.

  1. Raise conciousness within SSB as to the needs, desires and hopes of various bodies within SSB, particularly those coming from the margins.
  2. Raise understanding / conciousness of marginalised folx who may not be familar with the ecosystem and culture of producing open source software.

Somewhere in the middle of that zone is something potent and magical, I suspect.

Listen

Side A: https://keybase.pub/danielsan/the-local-gossip/the-local-gossip-neb4q4hy-anna-marissa-magick-tarot-and-gossip/the-local-gossip-neb4q4hy-anna-marissa-magick-tarot-and-gossip-side-A.mp3

Side B: https://keybase.pub/danielsan/the-local-gossip/the-local-gossip-neb4q4hy-anna-marissa-magick-tarot-and-gossip/the-local-gossip-neb4q4hy-anna-marissa-magick-tarot-and-gossip-side-B.mp3

tags: #podcast #podcasts #intersectionality #magic #sociotechnicalsystems #feminism #sexwork

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@dan
Re: %NFWTU0JSW

@kawaiipunk I think you'll especially love Side B of this episode mixtape.

@Zach
Voted [@zach](@ZqH7Mctu/7DNInxuwl12ECjfrAKUX2tBLq1rOldNhg0=.ed25519) you'll be ha
@mycognosist
Voted I can't wait to share this... https://keybase.pub/danielsan/the-local-goss
@mycognosist
Voted Have a super exciting episode coming up next week. I love this format.
@bundy
Voted Have a super exciting episode coming up next week. I love this format.
@zerocipher
Voted I can't wait to share this... https://keybase.pub/danielsan/the-local-goss
@dan
Re: %NFWTU0JSW

@zach you'll be happy to hear I was lucky to cross paths with a witch at a P2P event :-D

@dan
Re: %NFWTU0JSW

I can't wait to share this...

https://keybase.pub/danielsan/the-local-gossip/the-local-gossip-neb4q4hy-anna-marissa-magick-tarot-and-gossip/

Gonna be writing up some show notes soon...

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@elavoie
Voted Have a super exciting episode coming up next week. I love this format.
@dan

Have a super exciting episode coming up next week. I love this format.

@cel
Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
@lancew
Voted # the-local-gossip-index git ![seagulls.jpg](&J6kMH5qmpSv3KYlC0NZU4/X0LH2n
@NicoPace
Voted [@noffle](@C3iYh/12sO1uvKq1KcZXLFxSySzxOkHxXN8rtNB5MGA=.ed25519) and [@cel]
@NicoPace
Voted oops, `-b:a $bitrate`
@NicoPace
Voted > If someone could share a good ffmeg command to convert to as small as pos
@NicoPace
Voted Just chatted with [@noffle](@C3iYh/12sO1uvKq1KcZXLFxSySzxOkHxXN8rtNB5MGA=.e
@Giarc
Subscribed to channel #the-local-gossip
@dan
Voted @DanHassan what changed for you? was there a technical hurdle, or maybe a c
@dan
Re: %6wdl9bLeI

@noffle

the main hurdle was that over the last year + I just have not really been coding. since moving house and no more moves on the horizon i have more mind space for coding, so therefore more need for git :)

there was also the conceptual hurdle or not quite getting the value proposition.

this has in tandem changed as my mind has become cypherspace first - this has happened over the course of the #mmt project.

another point is that you mentioned it was fun. when I looked at it through that lense I thought "it's neat that I don't need to worry about a connection right now and by pushing up I am inviting my friends and friends of friends to help carry my code in their knapsacks"

my workflow is now to push to ssb first, then to github. that order shift makes me smile each time and is a moment and invitation to pause and reflect on the wider transition we are working towards.

Here is an image I find in the logs on the word transition :)

pahoa_transfer_station_lava_0.jpg

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@Luandro
Voted # Episode 6: #talenet, #35c3 and #1komona ## Featuring [@katze](@3a/8Vgf
@greg
Voted [@noffle](@C3iYh/12sO1uvKq1KcZXLFxSySzxOkHxXN8rtNB5MGA=.ed25519) and [@cel]
@greg
Voted Just chatted with [@noffle](@C3iYh/12sO1uvKq1KcZXLFxSySzxOkHxXN8rtNB5MGA=.e
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@nuanima
Voted # the-local-gossip-index git ![seagulls.jpg](&J6kMH5qmpSv3KYlC0NZU4/X0LH2n
@dan
Voted [@dan hassan](@NeB4q4Hy9IiMxs5L08oevEhivxW+/aDu/s/0SkNayi0=.ed25519) The in
@dan
Re: %6wdl9bLeI

Ok - I have just put up a simple site which links out to this episode!

This small sample set of one would indicate it is indeed better for the localhost to make a simple DAT site to make sure something gets put up!

@dan

the-local-gossip-index git

seagulls.jpg

on #git-ssb : ssb://%w/wxVlekctJwx1DknRaoTpFtTkPtKw/a4xxFk7RtMB8=.sha256

on github: https://github.com/dan-mi-sun/the-local-gossip-index

@dan
Re: %IKgYi6smz

@interfect good catch about the wrong link for episode 6, have fixed :)

Unrendered Markdown is a "i'll figure out what to do with this later :-)"

@interfect
Re: %IKgYi6smz

@dan hassan The index entry for this episode in dat://232334ebb444ca6468de75044f45e7c15c5a8c0d71c2a0658cb28f174b60723f/ is messed up; the link goes to the episode 5 page.

It's also partly in unrendered Markdown, but that may be intentional.

Can you fix it?

@manni
Voted [@noffle](@C3iYh/12sO1uvKq1KcZXLFxSySzxOkHxXN8rtNB5MGA=.ed25519) and [@cel]
@ansuz
Voted [@noffle](@C3iYh/12sO1uvKq1KcZXLFxSySzxOkHxXN8rtNB5MGA=.ed25519) and [@cel]
@bobhaugen
Voted [@noffle](@C3iYh/12sO1uvKq1KcZXLFxSySzxOkHxXN8rtNB5MGA=.ed25519) and [@cel]
@dan
Re: %6wdl9bLeI

@noffle and @cel I am using git-ssb WAY more since this episode.

I just realised I didn't make a DAT site so will be doing that this week :-D

https://reiinakano.github.io

@Stephen Reid
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@hahawat
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@Inês
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@dan
Voted This was a really good podcast, thanks for putting it together. I enjoyed [
@bobhaugen
Voted This was a really good podcast, thanks for putting it together. I enjoyed [
@mycognosist
Voted This was a really good podcast, thanks for putting it together. I enjoyed [
@adamsky
Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
@Anders
Re: %CikJWTvIH

This was a really good podcast, thanks for putting it together. I enjoyed @bobs perspective on things and @dinosaurs plans for sbot in rust.

@Anders
Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
@Jacob
Voted # Episode 6: #talenet, #35c3 and #1komona ## Featuring [@katze](@3a/8Vgf
@MissSophie
Voted # Episode 6: #talenet, #35c3 and #1komona ## Featuring [@katze](@3a/8Vgf
@Zenna
Voted # Episode 6: #talenet, #35c3 and #1komona ## Featuring [@katze](@3a/8Vgf
@cryptix
Voted # Episode 6: #talenet, #35c3 and #1komona ## Featuring [@katze](@3a/8Vgf
@ansuz
Voted # Episode 6: #talenet, #35c3 and #1komona ## Featuring [@katze](@3a/8Vgf
@mycognosist
Voted # Episode 6: #talenet, #35c3 and #1komona ## Featuring [@katze](@3a/8Vgf
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@kawaiipunk
Voted # Episode 6: #talenet, #35c3 and #1komona ## Featuring [@katze](@3a/8Vgf
@dan

Episode 6: #talenet, #35c3 and #1komona

Featuring @katze & @cryptix

vision-on-fire-local-gossip.jpg
(this image i took the morning after recording this episode. it is the first time kiddo has raided our library and happened to pick up this emma goldman book and sat there for 15 mins looking through the words. these books have been in storage for years. there are hundreds of books at little person height that they could have chosen from. "If there's no dancing, it's not my revolution" came up in this chat so I am sharing this synchronisity)

Prelude!

A year ago @cryptix started a thread linking out to a #stealthisshow I'd been on. Around that time mmt was in very early days and I was in the process of preparing to leave for #fiji . I remember at the time asking on facebook what others would bring with them on such a trip with a toddler. @mix
popped up and did his small drumbeat thing and suggested compression packs (which I already knew about and loved) and suggested patchwork/ssb might make a good comms medium (but that i should download the history whilst in a high bandwidth zone). He also mentioned this post by cryptix saying that folks would be interested in chatting. This was in no small part part of what lead me to become a native of this cypherspace. So, thank you cryptix!

Then about 3 weeks ago the discussions about the #buttcouncil started & I posted inviting people to message privately if they wanted to contribute through proxy. Cryptix then started a private message between me an @katze where we started to have a very interesting conversation which lead into this episode! I :heartpulse: it & hope you will too :-)

Help with transcription!

HackMD doc for transcription (please help so that we can acheive eventual increased accessibility)

@somem
Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
@CKKH
Voted ## Episode 4: ssb-chess ### Featuring [@happy0](@RJ09Kfs3neEZPrbpbWVDxkN92
@CKKH
Subscribed to channel #the-local-gossip
@dan
Voted Absolutely amazing to learn more about your story [@bobhaugen](@iL6NzQoOLFP
@bobhaugen
Voted a few thoughts as i have time... i really liked the contrast of your local
@bobhaugen
Voted Absolutely amazing to learn more about your story [@bobhaugen](@iL6NzQoOLFP
@aran
Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
@mikey
Voted Absolutely amazing to learn more about your story [@bobhaugen](@iL6NzQoOLFP
@PresGas
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@Luandro
Re: %CikJWTvIH

Absolutely amazing to learn more about your story @bobhaugen thank you very much both of you for this. I'd love to learn a bit more about @dinosaur's stories as well.

You were so very gentle @dinosaur, I like it :relaxed:

@zerocipher
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@Angelica
Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
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@Gordon
Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
@Gordon
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@mikey
Voted a few thoughts as i have time... i really liked the contrast of your local
@dan
Re: %CikJWTvIH

a few thoughts as i have time...

i really liked the contrast of your localhost approach mikey, which if I could describe it i would do it as follows. you showed you were listening by making confirming gentle noises such as 'hmmm' and 'uha' - you mostly were present and active but not taking up the airwaves. but you were clearly engaged as you looped back to points to add nuance. your questions were also potent and to the point and also open ended. i feel i could learn ALOT from this - my questions are often long and convuluted and contain lots of questions within one question. I think glyph also asked potent questions which afford a sense of spaciousness.

and bob! WOW. you're a living treasure trove. I'd love to catch up with you for another yarn as it feels there is so many threads of such depth and length to pull on. AND i loved your pattern of going deep, of showing appreciation for things youve seen around you and of asking dinosaur questions - i know for me when someone is asking me questions i can let my brain go - WOOHOO i get to speak about ME! and then go off on one. ...


@dinosaur the main thing at certain points (you asked for meta feedback) is that at times we were in at the deepend without a quick primer so that there was some shared context... like TLDR or sensorica, REA, ActivityPub. In all those cases you could pick up what they did etc - but it wasn't the first thing when they came up. That might just be how my brain works / a preference, but thought I'd share it incase it's useful feedback. If not, feel free to pop it into the cypherspace compost heap :)

--

Overall I am suuuper happy I fucked up the timezones and wrote myself out of being able to participate which was NOT front brain on purpose - but may have been back brain on purpose - I'll never know :-D

@christo
Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
@kawaiipunk
Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
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Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
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Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
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Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
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@Luandro
Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
@mikey
Voted [@dinosaur](@6ilZq3kN0F+dXFHAPjAwMm87JEb/VdB+LC9eIMW3sa0=.ed25519) THANK YO
@mycognosist
Voted [@dinosaur](@6ilZq3kN0F+dXFHAPjAwMm87JEb/VdB+LC9eIMW3sa0=.ed25519) THANK YO
@mycognosist
Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
@dan
Subscribed to channel #the-local-gossip
@dan
Re: %CikJWTvIH

@dinosaur THANK YOU! also. @bob I am really happy this happened and that we had a test call and got to catch up some :-D

you were very gracious about taking on the baton.

i have updated the index.

i am listening now. will report back later ;_D

@dan
Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
@Inês
Voted ## Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks ### F
@mikey

Episode 5: an intersecting journey towards open economic networks

Featuring @dinosaur and @bobhaugen

the-local-gossip-5-cover.jpg
(image by Bob)

hi friends, here's another episode of The Local Gossip! :sparkling_heart:

Bob was struck by a previous episode's comment about "developing the software while living inside it, and having your consciousness changed while experiencing the software you are creating", so reached out to @dan hassan. soon enough i'm hosting a conversation with Bob about our intersecting marathon (with @Lynn) towards open economic networks, protocols over platforms, agent-centered computing, a culture of care, founders' syndrome, and more!

HackMD doc for transcription (please help if you want!)

keen for any meta-feedback on the episode, this is my first episode as the localhost, maybe soon many more. :smiley_cat:

@formless
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@Maarten
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@ike
Voted exciting things brewing!
@elavoie
Voted exciting things brewing!
@mycognosist
Voted exciting things brewing!
@lancew
Voted exciting things brewing!
@dan

exciting things brewing!

@Angelica
Voted I finally listened to the episode(s). They were quite interesting. I notic
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